Today in American Studies class we started off with the significance of numbers, and we got into the matter of whether or not numbers could lie. One classmate said that she had heard the quote, "The figures can't lie, but the liers can figure." This really got me thinking... Can numbers lie? While I completely agree with the second part of the statement, and know that people can pick apart the data to get the answers or conclusions they want, I'm still not so sure about the first part. The numbers can be influenced by someone's bias, even if they are real numbers, but what if they make up the numbers? Aren't the numbers lying if they are completely made up? In some ways I think that they are, but I also feel like it's the person who made them up who's the liar and not the numbers because the numbers came from somewhere, even if it was just inside that person's head. This to me is that hardest part about figuring out whether the numbers are lying or not...
In class it seemed that we came to the decision that the numbers couldn't lie, but a bias could be applied to the way they are presented or even the way the data was collected, but I still don't know. What do you think? Can numbers lie?
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I think I already made my opinion on whether or not numbers could lie clear in class, so I will not bother restating it. However, your question "Aren't the numbers lying if they are completely made up?" got me thinking, is being alive a requirement for lying? (Or rather, is coming from the mind of something lying a prerequisite to lying?)
ReplyDeleteIf we assume the answer is yes, then the question of "can numbers lie?" need not even be asked. Then again, I am not so sure. Numbers, if we assume them to be concrete, are inanimate and therefore cannot lie. But the ability to count and understand numbers is relatively complex. Many animals cannot conceive of numbers as humans do. In this case, we may view numbers as being our brains' way of coping with our environment, making numbers a construct of the human mind. Since humans can lie, the constructs can be lie. By this logic, Numbers Can Lie.
Just to confuse everyone further (*pause for comedic effect*), I still think numbers cannot lie. (This may primarily be for the cause of retaining my own sanity)
I guess the numbers themselves can't lie, but they can easily be misinterpreted because we see meaning in them even when there really is no meaning at all. I think the whole of idea that "numbers lie" refers to the actual presentation of numbers and the way that might affect our mind's projection on to the numbers, but it doesn't imply the numbers are consciously trying to deceive you.
ReplyDeleteHowever, even outside of humans putting bias in to them, they can be misleading, because they're systems we have to put together based on what else we know or can sense to be true, which is limited. There are entire scientific theories that only have evidence supporting them through the conclusions of math problems, but we can't actually observe whether the theory is true or not even if they seem plausible based on our previous knowledge. As a result, they remain speculations. Even if both sides of the equation check out, the math could be deceiving us because the math system we know is imperfect for the area of science we're trying to make it probe. New technology and types of math can be created, though, although I have no clue what it takes to invent that sort of stuff.
I agree with the original quote, but my reasoning is a little different than what we discussed in class. I can see your point that a someone can lie by making up numbers; however, the number is not misleading, it is how that number is represented. Any number, made up or measure, is utterly meaningless without interpretation. The number 86 doesn't lie; I lie when I say, "There are 86 states."
ReplyDeleteLiars use numbers to hide themselves when they voice opinions. When we say numbers lie, we are just protecting the people behind them.
What an interesting post (and blog)! The chain of discussion here is fascinating and philosophical. Check out Errol Morris's NYT blog on the topic of lying. I wonder also what you (and Shirley et al) would say about photography: can photos lie?
ReplyDeleteNice job here!